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January 19, 2012

Comments

Steve H

In your extracts - I haven't seen the book yet - Lyons seems to be equating 'expert' with 'prophet'; I'm not sure that's at all appropriate.

Not that a theologian/biblical scholar/other expert is necessarily unable to speak prophetically, but that scholarship - our native mode of speech - is not a prophetic mode.

I see much of what I do as about reminding the community of its story - work that involves both telling the story, and examining other tellings to test their accuracy. So that is about recalling old prophecies, if you like. Some more is about testing prophecy - listening to what prophets are saying, and trying to make sense of it. Very little is actual prophecy...

John Lyons

The context in which I equated the term "prophet" with the term "expert" is a very important one, and does, I think, clarify the issue at stake. I would urge people to read the piece--and the book--before they leap to judgment.

Baptist churches, it seems to me, have a real difficulty relating to those who are deeply knowledgable about a large number of areas of church life and thought; the result is that the one side often self-censors its words and the other side tends to ignore even what is being expressed. In that kind of scenario, it seems to me, the views of such 'experts', whatever their specific area of knowledge, inevitably have a prophetic aspect since they are challenging the church in its current practice. Hence I was happy to call them prophets.

It may be of course that there is such a thing as a "prophet proper", that "expert" is the wrong term to use, and that people would prefer to use other terms. I am very happy to be corrected on the suitability of my language for Baptist churches.

But the basic issue remains. How is such critical thinking to be assimilated into a Baptist church life that currently does not seem to value it very much, but is crying out for it? How do we go about encouraging those people to speak who currently self-censor their ideas for fear of being thought presumptious and non-baptistic? How do we encourage our churches to listen and weigh what is said without prejudice? There has been, and is, a great loss to the churches here, I think.

The question I end up with is this: if we accept that the above description is even approximately true (and some might not, I know), what can we do to change the situation?

David Kerrigan

Excellent post Andy. The relationship of expert to prophet is an important one. The expert perhaps has more tools at her disposal than she realises and maybe needs to have the courage to be more prophetic. But the prophets too must be willing to be courageous and break cover before the experts say it's now 'safe' to think differently in any particular area.

This is a real issue. Prophets sometimes go on holy hunches, feelings, urges... and when they're right these can be attributed to Holy Spirit insight. But its not an easy stance to adopt, for sure, not least because they can be wrong.

This is where a rediscovery and affirmation of our radical dissenting roots should help. Truth to tell, we too easily condemn those who think differently, labelling them unsound. Nothing kills faster in evangelical circles, which is why our Baptist circles need to be more adventurous. On a range of issues at the moment I sense we have a generation of Baptists who want to break the mould of received wisdom, not to be iconoclastic but out of a sincere conviction that Jesus would have us think afresh.

Many prophets would love the 'cover' of academics to offer protection against the incoming flak, but something tells me that just isn't the prophetic way!

Andy Goodliff

Steve Holmes offers a related response here: http://shoredfragments.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/being-a-theologian-for-the-church/

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